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Email Exchanges

Blogs • Email Exchanges • Rangers

Nov 20, 2013

Rangers-Bruins Brings Out War of Words

With the Rangers and Bruins meeting for the first time this season I had to email Mike Miccoli to get his thoughts on the game throughout the entire game.

Rangers games feel different and more important when facing the Bruins. Even though it’s just one of 82 games and the usual two points are on the line, it has the feel of a playoff game and there’s actually more than just two points on the line with the history between the two Original Six franchises and their fans.

Because of this extra importance and because it’s only one of three games between the two teams this season and because I wasn’t going to Madison Square Garden on Tuesday night after having to watch Sunday night’s 1-0 letdown against the Kings in person, I decided to see what my freshman year of college roommate Mike Miccoli, who covers the Bruins for The Hockey Writers, was up to for the game. Luckily, he was also watching the game from his apartment in Boston and agreed to trade emails with me during it.

7:26 P.M.

Keefe: Two years ago when the Bruins reached the Stanley Cup Final I asked you if the Bruins won the Cup, would you be willing to have the Red Sox suck for the next 10 years while the Yankees won five World Series during that time? You didn’t hesitate to say yes. Let’s recap what has happened since then.

After June 2011, the Yankees were bounced in five games that fall in the ALDS, losing Game 5 to the Tigers at Yankee Stadium, but the Red Sox completed the worst regular-season collapse in baseball history. Everything going according to plan so far.

In 2012, the Yankees lost in four games in the ALCS to the Tigers, while Derek Jeter destroyed his ankle, Robinson Cano made a makeshift lounge chair in the dugout and A-Rod, Mark Teixeira, Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher were hopefully playing drunk during the series. But the Red Sox had the worst season imaginable under Bobby Valentine. So with two years down, I figured that meant the Yankees would win five of the next eight world Series.

But then in 2013, things changed and not just in baseball. The Bruins overcame a three-goal deficit in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference quarterfinals, nearly blowing a 3-1 series lead before the most epic of comebacks. Then they embarrassed the Rangers in five games and the Penguins in four games and were just over a minute away from sending the Stanley Cup Final back to Chicago for Game 7. Also this year, the Yankees endured so many injuries to their starting lineup that I actually missed Francisco Cervelli and found myself hoping that Lyle Overbay and Vernon Wells could carry the 2013 Yankees, which didn’t end well and the Yankees missed the postseason for the second time since 1993. Meanwhile, the Red Sox rebounded from their disastrous season to win their third World Series in 10 years and third since I met you freshman year of college.

In this calendar year, you have gone to Game 6 of the Cup Final, the AFC Championship Game and won the World Series. I have endured the Rangers losing to your Bruins, Eli Manning and Tom Coughlin era falling apart (though it might be turning now) and the second-worst Yankees season of the last 20 years. Before we can get into this game tonight, I want to know: How the eff did you reverse the curse you put on your fandom and Boston sports?

 

7:50 P.M.

Miccoli: Remember the first weekend in our 1105 dorm room? Probably not, but that’s cool because I don’t really either. I realized after the first week of classes that I didn’t own one piece of Red Sox gear. See, back in Rhode Island, you could get away with a Pawtucket Red Sox hat as your gear of choice, walking down the Providence Place Mall with a giant, red “P” on your dome. Of course, I’d probably have some type of Bruins gear instead, but that’s neither here or there, especially with the lockout looming after a disappointing Boston exit from the playoffs by the hands of the Canadiens.

ANYWAY. I decided to buy a Red Sox hat to fit in around the city and get girls to talk to me. That didn’t work at all but hey, six weeks later, the Red Sox won the World Series for the first time in 86 years and then did it again when we were seniors and could legally get into bars instead of watching in our dorm room. Guess which hat I was wearing last month when they did it again?

Although it’s probably stupid for me to credit it all on a hat, I really don’t have a better answer for you so we’ll go with that. As far as the Bruins go, I guess you can say it’s just better to go along for the ride.

When I was growing up a youth in Rhode Island, nobody knew much about hockey. I know that sounds like an exaggerated statement, but I’m dead serious. All throughout my time in elementary school, the Bruins were an afterthought to everyone–the amount of times I had to explain my hockey fandom was insane. So this is nice. It helps that the sport evolved and the team has gotten worlds better, but for a period of time, Boston was the Bruins’ city. That was both weird and really cool. Even though the Red Sox are the city’s reigning champions (it’s SO hard to keep up with that, these days), I’d say the Bruins are still pretty damn important.

I’m excited for tonight’s game though. The Bruins are still in that ‘we don’t know how good we are yet so we’ll just let teams hang in games and figure it out, cool?’ stage. You, of course, know that I think the Rangers are a perennial good team, and always a challenge for Boston. This time though, I’m curious to see if Torey Krug can still give Henrik Lundqvist nightmares.

 

7:57 P.M.

Keefe: You do always think the Rangers are a perennial good team, which is nice during the regular season, but in the Henrik Lundqvist era (post-lockout), here is how their eight seasons have ended (none of these are Lundqvist’s fault):

2005-06: Lost in first round
2006-07: Lost in second round
2007-08: Lost in second round
2008-09: Lost in first round
2009-10: Missed playoffs
2010-11: Lost in first round
2011-12: Lost in conference finals
2012-13: Lost in second round

So as you can see, I’m beginning to think your idea of them being a perennial good team is just your attempt at a sneaky reverse jinx. You’re sick!

I’m not sure if Torey Krug gives Henrik Lundqvist nightmares, but he definitely gives me them since I’m 100 percent sure that if Torey Krug doesn’t come out of nowhere (like actual nowhere) and suddenly turn into Ray Bourque 2.0 (little known fact: Ray Bourque is my favorite player of all time) in the conference semifinals last May, then the Rangers face the Penguins in the Eastern Conference finals. That’s not my opinion or a hypothetical, that’s a fact.

As I type this, the Rangers just blew a power-play chance (no surprise there) and Chris Kreider just had one of the sloppiest penalty shot attempts you will ever see. I think it’s time I offer you another chance to set Boston sports back.

 

8:11 P.M.

Miccoli: It must have been awhile since you’ve been to Boston since the Torey Krug statue is already being erected next to Orr’s outside TD Garden. Although, he has looked brutal in own end so far this game. When Derek Dorsett is beating you for loose pucks in your own end, you probably should re-evaluate some things.

No disrespect to the Rangers power play, even though their unit did look pretty crappy, but the Bruins have now killed 33 straight penalties. That’s pretty insane, right? Right around Halloween, the Bruins were near the bottom of the NHL on the penalty kill. Now? Number two. If you can’t capitalize when one of the Bruins’ top PKers is in the box, when will you be able to?

Speaking of scoring, it’s not happening this game, is it? The Rangers aren’t exactly lighting it up at home and the Bruins are facing a netminder who has incredible numbers when playing in his own crease. Luckily, Boston hasn’t looked too out of sorts even though they’re playing in their second game in as many nights. I’m just thankful that Tuukka Rask got the start instead of the new number 30, Chad Johnson. And I say that as I watch the game in my Tim Thomas jersey, shaking on my couch. Just kidding, except not really.

 

8:28 P.M.

Keefe: I have seen Chad Johnson play for the Bruins this season and therefore I knew he was wearing number 30, but I didn’t really put two and two together and realize that they gave Thomas’ number away so quickly. Kind of weird. But I guess when you do the things that Tim Thomas did during the 2011-12 season and then quit on the team and quit the game while still under contract, it doesn’t matter if you won the Conn Smythe and led the team to their first Cup since 1972.

When my girlfriend asked me what I thought the score would be tonight, I said I had to wait until I found out if Tuukka Rask was going to play. Once I found out he was I said 1-0, if not then 2-1 because that’s the score whenever Lundqvist and Rask face each other (at least in the regular season).

It’s not a good feeling that after 20 minutes and the way the Rangers dominated the play and had a penalty shot, a semi breakaway for Rick Nash and a perfect deflection through Rask’s leg that the game is tied 0-0. This has a feeling of a 1-0 Bruins win with the Bruins’ fourth line scoring some garbage double or maybe triple deflection goal. Either that or Dan Girardi will score on Lundqvist himself since that’s what Dan Girardi thinks he’s supposed to do in a contract year.

 

8:40 P.M.

Miccoli: I think the Bruins are on their heels. Right after I typed that “Boston doesn’t look too out of sorts …” they began to revert into the type of team that does nothing but allow their opponents to walk in and take control of the game. The Rangers have 16 shots on net compared to the Bruins’ six. That’s not comforting especially when the Bruins just announced that their No. 2 defenseman, Dennis Seidenberg, was going to miss the rest of the game.

Maybe this is New York’s chance to explode offensively. Take away Chara and Johnny Boychuk and then the Rangers are left to beat Dougie Hamilton, Matt Bartkowski and Krug. While they’ll probably develop into fine blue-liners, it’s not the squad you want to have out there for 50-plus minutes of a hockey game when shorthanded.

There’s also a very good chance I’m giving the Rangers too much credit. My roommate, also a Rangers fan (I’m not sure how I keep finding myself in these situations) says that I am. But defense wins championships, which means that they win hockey games too. Want to tell New York how to win? Get Chara tired and outwork the other five.

 

8:45 P.M.

(Shawn Thornton scores.)

Keefe: After what I sent in my last email and what just happened, do I need to write anything?

 

8:47 P.M.

Miccoli: Shawn Thornton: bonafide sniper. Every single goal he has scored this season has been a beauty, which makes it a shame when people say he’s “just a fighter.” Sure! The fourth line enforcer just lit up one of the best goaltenders in the world.

 

8:52 P.M.

Keefe: Well, he does have 35 goals in 514 career games, so it only makes sense that he scores against Henrik Lundqvist tonight.

I went to the game on Sunday night against the Kings and was devastated at a 1-0 loss. Who wants to see a 1-0 regular-season game in which your team loses? At least if this score holds up, and the way Rask is playing it might, I will be happy that I decided to not go tonight and sit on the couch and exchange emails with you during the game instead. All we need now is a couple of twin beds, a box TV, a Playstation 2 with MVP 2005 and a couple of cluster roommates plugging in their amps to reenact an Ozzfest concert on the other side of the wall at 4 a.m. or playing Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas with their homemade surround sound.

Here’s a real question: Are these the best two goalies in the world? I think so.

 

8:59 P.M.

Miccoli: As I write this, the Bruins have nine shots on net. The Rangers have 24 and Tuukka Rask has stopped every single one. Are these the best two goalies in the world? Right now, yes. I think that you could probably make a case for Jon Quick and Pekka Rinne, but for now it’s these two.

What’s exciting about Rask is that he’s just entering his prime. Coming off an eight-year extension, it’s possible that he could be one of the most elite goaltenders in Boston’s history. He’s the perfect fit for a team that doesn’t score a ton of goals and plays in a structured, defensive system. The Bruins need Rask to be on his best every night and with the exception of Friday’s loss against the Ottawa Senators, he has been.

Oh, a Bruins shorthanded goal from Diamond Daniel Paille. Jack Edwards just said that the only place in New York that’s quieter than the Garden is the New York Public Library. And now a Bronx cheer?! What is this?!

 

9:06 P.M.

Keefe: That Bronx cheer was unexpected, but that’s going to happen when the MSG crowd is full of suits, who couldn’t tell you what number Henrik Lundqvist wears and just know that when the team in white scores on the team in blue it’s bad. Bronx cheers need to be saved for when Brian Boyle is used on the power play. We can’t be wasting them on the best goalie in the world giving up a breakaway goal.

And there’s the first Rangers goal in 127:06 of hockey! Just when I was beginning to think they might get shutout for the second game … in a row … at home. It wasn’t that crazy of a thought since they had last scored 5:25 into the second period in Montreal on Saturday night.

Yes, the Derick Brassard goal just saved the game, but what saved it more than cutting the deficit to one was the timing of it, coming just after the Bruins scored. And as NBC Sports goes to break, the slow-motion replay shows the puck splitting a a pair of legs on the way to the net. No, the Rangers can’t score on penalty shots or breakaways or odd-man rushes or power plays, but they can score through an accidental screen and deflection off a shin pad.

The 1-0 prediction is done, but the 2-1 is still alive. How are the Bruins playing so well after playing Carolina just 24 hours ago? You should see how the Rangers play on the second night of a back-to-back.

And Derek Dorsett heads to the box…

 

9:08 P.M.

Keefe: Before you can even respond, the Rangers kill off Dorsett’s penalty and now he’s going back to the box!

 

9:16 P.M.

Miccoli: I hope you were able to find comfort in the Bruins last power play. The one aspect of the Bruins’ game that hasn’t sucked as per usual is the power play. Maybe it’s Krug on the point, or Chara in front, but it’s been better.

Now, 30 seconds into their second power play, it seems to be more of the same. Bad entry into the zone, not enough possession and that stupid dump and chase from the neutral zone. Want to know who still uses the dump and chase? Peewee hockey teams that can’t skate. The Bruins are a big, physical team that unfortunately lacks speed. When they start to skate it into the zone, they find better success. It’s not working tonight because the Rangers are a faster team and their few shorthanded attempts have proved that. They’re beating the Bruins to the puck and winning the races.

Now with the Bruins getting one shot in two back-to-back power plays, it might be time to be worried. Twenty minutes left in a one-goal game between the Rangers and the Bruins. What happens in the third? Do you think national hero Gregory Campbell puts one home and completes the trifecta of fourth liners who can score on Lundqvist?

 

9:25 P.M.

Keefe: I don’t think there’s any doubt that Gregory Campbell is going to score and go home with the game-winning goal tonight. Is there somewhere taking in-game prop bets where I can bet on this?

In the third, I do expect the Rangers to tie it. They have dominated the play and have had several high-quality scoring chances and those chances have come in flurries. Now that they have broken the Bruins’ Koji Uehara-like penalty killing streak, maybe they can get another power play (if Dorsett allows them to) to tie the game. It would only be fitting if Rick Nash were to score in his return after missing 16 games thanks to a Brad Stuart elbow.

Speaking of Brad Stuart, it’s disgusting that he’s back on the Sharks now playing with Joe Thornton in the trade that never should have happened. But I guess Stuart, Wayne Primeau and Marco Sturm were worth trading the only player in majors sports history to be traded DURING his MVP season.

 

9:43 P.M.

Miccoli: That’s still a bit frustrating to me, even if the trade did lead to Zdeno Chara and Marc Savard and a Cup, whatever. I remember being in my dorm room, this was the post-Neil era, thinking that Marco Sturm had the potential to be a 35-plus goal scorer and Brad Stuart was destined to be a number-one defenseman. LOL, right?

Speaking of frustrating, no Bruin is having more of a trying season than Brad MarchAND. Not only did he just realize that we’ve been saying his name wrong for the past four years, his on-ice performance has been less than stellar. He’s made a ton of stupid mistakes, hey look a dirty check on Mats Zuccarello, hasn’t been able to find the back of the net and has been a turnover machine. You hope (not you, but you get it) that it’s just a slump and that he’s getting used to his new linemate, Loui Eriksson replacing Tyler Seguin. Personally, I think MarchAND still has the ability to be a 30+ goal scorer this season and be an impact player for the team.

But how many times will Claude Julien ‘send a message’ by benching him or demoting him to the fourth line before he’s scratched? It worked, kind of, for Milan Lucic last year. After being a healthy scratch, he rebounded by ending the season strong and is now the top goal scorer on the Bruins. It’s similar to what the Rangers went through with Brad Richards, except, you know, almost $3 million cheaper.

Also, when did Chris Kreider become the most exciting New York Ranger to watch?

 

9:52 P.M.

Keefe: Hey, now. Brad Richards has been the Rangers’ best offensive player this season. All of that amnesty buyout talk from the offseason is long gone and so are the days of Richards being made a fourth-liner and then a healthy scratch because John Tortorella, his so-called friend, decided to start making examples of people with the Rangers’ one loss away from elimination. It’s good to see Richards get the last laugh as the Rangers’ current leading scorer while Tortorella was fired and now is abusing Canadian media members.

It’s kind of weird that Tortorella is in Vancouver and now Alain Vigneault is here with the two switching places. I was never the biggest AV (yes, that’s what he told Glen Sather to call him and said he wants to go by) fan when he was the coach of the Canucks, but I think that was more a product of the players he was coaching and not the type of coach he is. I have enjoyed watching him actually use guys with scoring ability and talent as actual scorers and not shot-blocking pylons or grinders or bruisers. It’s too bad Marian Gaborik had to be moved because of Tortorella because if Gaborik was able to score 40-plus goals twice under Tortorella, what would he have been able to do under AV?

I’m sure for you that you have a much different perspective and much different feelings toward AV since he was the coach of the hated 2010-11 Canucks team that went the distance with your Bruins.

And Chris Kreider became the most exciting Ranger to watch when I wrote at the end of October that the organization needed to stop Joba Chamberlain-ing him and sending him up and down and not letting him the freedom to become the first-round pick and top-six forward they envisioned. Since his call-up and utilization in a set role on a real line in an offensive system, he has been the player that Sather didn’t want to trade for Nash in February 2011 (though I wanted to and still wish they had).

But really he became the most exciting Ranger just tonight.

 

10:02 P.M.

Miccoli: Did I ever tell you how much I like John Tortorella? I know that sounds crazy, but it’s true. I remember covering the Eastern Conference Semifinals last season and going to his press conference, all excited to see him whip out some quick wit and dry humor. True story, I tried to avoid eye contact at all costs. It was like going to a bad stand-up comedy show and trying not to make any false moves in fear that you’d get picked on. I’ve never been more scared in my life.

Anyway, I like what AV has done with the team so far. Even after the skid to start the season, it’s evident that the Rangers are a different team. They’re motivated and he’s added another element to the roster.

With four minutes left in the game and the Bruins playing the way that they are, I can’t see a way that they pull this off unless Lundqvist is pulled and Milan Lucic scored an empty netter to win it. I don’t have the exact stats, but out of his nine goals, there’s a good chance that four have come with nobody in net.

 

10:05 P.M.

Keefe: Speaking of underachievers and stats like that, Derek Stepan has four goals this season and three of them were in one game. That is an exact stat. And he has been terrible tonight, fanning on several shots and failing to keep the puck in the offensive zone.

Meanwhile I just officially welcomed Dan Girardi to the A.J. Burnett/Boone Logan/Kevin Gilbride/Brian Boyle/Nick Swisher Etc. Club. I have wanted to for a while now, but I was waiting for the right moment and then two awful breakdowns on back-to-back shifts made me realize now was the time.

There is 2:20 left. The Rangers have one goal since the second period of Saturday’s game. They aren’t scoring here.

 

10:08 P.M.

Miccoli: The Bruins fourth line is out on the ice with a minute left in the game. Now, with 17 seconds, the refs decide to blow the play dead with Chris Kelly on his way to score on the empty net. That’s good. I was getting tired of listening to the blown call on the Patriots from last night. I’m glad we can forget about that call and focus on this one now.

 

10:13 P.M.

Keefe: It’s OK because the faceoff is at center ice and that will do it. The Rangers lose 2-1 and drop two home games in three days despite allowing just three goals combined. But it’s easy to lose like that when you only score one goal in 120 minutes.

I was thinking that this year would be different and that the Rangers wouldn’t just rely on Henrik Lundqvist to post a shutout every single game, which has been their game plan since the 2008-09 season. But so far it hasn’t been.

I guess I’m happy I didn’t waste the time and money to go the Garden tonight and watch that in person. Just 10 days until these two teams meet again for the second and second-to-last time this season. That means Greg Campbell will have to wait 10 more days to get his first goal of the season.

 

10:18 P.M.

Miccoli: There’s always the Giants. And the prospect of Robinson Cano wearing blue and orange.

Happy days in New York! I look forward to the Thanksgiving Day showdown and another one-goal game. Maybe a team will score three goals this time!

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Blogs • Email Exchanges • Giants

Oct 4, 2013

Giants-Eagles Is Must-Win at MetLife

The Giants face a must-win game against the Eagles at MetLife in Week 5 and that means an email exchange with Brandon Gowton of Bleeding Green Nation.

Well, we’re finally here. We’re finally at the point where the Giants are playing a must-win game. Sure, I have been loosely tossing around that title for the past few weeks, but this is it. This is the real deal. Beat the Eagles and keep the season alive or lose, go to 0-5 and play three months of meaningless football.

With the Eagles in town and possibly facing a must-win situation of their own, I did an email exchange with Brandon Gowton of Bleeding Green Nation to talk about the perception of Chip Kelly after four games, the emotions of Andy Reid’s return and seeing him in red and if either Nick Foles or Matt Barkley are the quarterback of the future.

Keefe: It’s been a while since a Giants-Eagles game had as much meaning as this one, even if this one means so much for all the wrong reasons. With the Giants at 0-4 and the Eagles at 1-3, both teams are still actually alive thanks to a down year for the NFC East with the 2-2 Cowboys currently the division leader.

The Giants, as I’m sure you know, have been an atrocity. They lead the league in every category you don’t want to lead the league in and since trailing 10-9 at halftime in Week 2 against the Broncos, they have been outscored 100-21.

The Eagles, on the other hand, opened the season with a bang against the Redskins and it looked like Chip Kelly would be an instant success story in the league. Instead they followed it up by losing to the Chargers at home, letting Andy Reid’s Chiefs dominate in his homecoming and getting blown out of Denver by the Broncos, which isn’t really all that bad since everyone is getting blown out by the Broncos. So over the last three weeks, the Eagles have been right there with the Giants.

After Week 1 I was still confident in the Giants because they had a chance to win a game on the road against a division opponent with two minutes to go despite turning the ball over six times. And I’m sure you were overly confident after the Eagles picked apart the Redskins and looked like they might be able to run the score up on the entire NFC.

Before we get to the former head coach, let’s start with the current head coach. What were your thoughts on Kelly and how have they changed after his hiring, after the Week 1 win and after the three straight losses?

Gowton: My feelings on the Chip Kelly hire haven’t changed much since his hire. I’m excited about his brand of football that he’s brought to Philadeplhia, and I’m aware that it will take some time before everything fully blossoms. The Eagles are an historical offensive pace in terms of yards. That’s something to be excited about once (if) the Birds figure out how to translate those yards into more points.

Keefe: And how about the old head coach?

Andy Reid was the head coach of the Eagles for 14 years, which in head coaching years is the equivalent of 56 years. From 1999-2012 he led the Eagles and led them to a 130-93-1 record, but was never able to win the Big One for them and everyone will always cite that when they talk about his time in Philadelphia.

Change is hard as a fan especially when it involves a fixture for your team. I went through it with Joe Torre and Jorge Posada and am about to go through it with Mariano Rivera and a second time with Andy Pettitte.

Did you think it was time for a change and time for Reid to go? How weird was it to see him on the opposite sideline in Week 3 coaching the Chiefs?

Gowton: It was definitely time for Andy Reid to go. He’s the greatest Eagles coach of all time to this date. The amount of success he generated in Philadelphia was mightily impressive. These things are great in remembrance, but the bottom line is the Eagles were an underperforming team that needed improvement. Chip Kelly was the perfect hire to replace the old guard. This organization needed a new energy and a new direction.

It was and still is weird to see Reid wearing red. It will always be that way. But it was the best move for him as well, and I wish him well in Kansas City.

Keefe: Michael Vick has played 16 games in a season in his career once (2006), and let’s be honest, he probably won’t play 16 games this season with the way he plays at the age of 33 if the last time he did it was seven years ago.

Vick has played pretty well so far under Kelly, so it’s not like he’s in danger of losing his job. Well, unless the Eagles season continues to go south. And if it does what happens then?

The Eagles have Nick Foles and Matt Barkley as backups with Foles having played in seven games last year after being drafted in 2012 and Barkley being a rookie, whose draft stock plummeted after he decided to stay for another year at USC.

If the Eagles aren’t going where they expect to go this season or Vick is unable to play a complete season, is it automatic that Foles would take over? Who do you like better between Foles and Barkley and which of the two is the quarterback of the future?

Gowton: Call me crazy, but I actually think Vick stands a decent chance of playing all 16 games. Or maybe he misses one or two at most. He’s done a better job of protecting himself than I’ve seen in recent years. He makes the effort to get down or run out of bounds before taking that extra hit.

Chip Kelly was brought to Philadelphia to win football games. It sounds simple and obvious, but it needs to be said. With that in mind, he’s going to play the guy who gives him the best chance to win. As long as he feels that guy is Vick, he will be the starter. Nick Foles will only be playing at quarterback if Vick is hurt.

I like Foles more than Barkley at this point. Barkley clearly looked like a rookie in preseason and training camp. He needs time to develop. I’m not sure if either of them are the future, though. They certainly have the chance to be, but it won’t be handed to them at all. If they truly aspire to be the future starter, they need to clearly outplay their competition and win the job.

Keefe: This game on Sunday is the Giants season. Up until now, their games have been called “must-win,” but this is the real deal. They’re not coming back from 0-5 (I mean the odds are strongly against them to even come back from 0-4.) If they can’t beat a reeling Eagles team that is slumping just as bad as they are at home at MetLife with the season on the line then at least I will know I can focus my attention to the Rangers and hockey season and not to letting the Giants steal three-plus hours of my Sundays.

Some people believe that in situations like this the more desperate team wins, but if that was true then the Giants wouldn’t have as many second-half collapses as they do under Tom Coughlin. And it’s not like the Giants are even a heavy favorite as the more desperate team in this game given the Eagles’ current state.

And given the way the Giants have been losing games, which is every way imaginable, I said on Monday if the Eagles are planning a “Miracle at the Meadowlands Part II” this Sunday then I wish someone would tell me now, so I can find something else to do.

What do you expect to happen on Sunday?

Gowton: I’ll start off by saying this game isn’t a freebie for Philadelphia. It’s the NFL – Any Given Sunday. With that said, the Giants have looked really bad in all phases: offense, defense, special teams. The Eagles know they have a chance to take the division lead with a win over the Giants (and a Dallas loss to Denver). Beating the Giants would mean the Eagles are 2-3, but more importantly they would be 2-0 in the NFC and the NFC East. That record is significant when it comes to the playoff picture. The three losses are merely AFC losses.Sunday could be an ugly game, but Philly will find a way to get the job done. The offense is too much of a threat for New York, and while the Eagles defense is bad, they can benefit from some likely Giants turnovers. Eagles 33, Giants 20

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Blogs • Email Exchanges • Rangers

Oct 3, 2013

The Alain Vigneault Era Begins

Hockey season is back and the Rangers open the year against the Coyotes in Phoenix on Thursday and that means an email exchange with Kevin DeLury of The New York Rangers Blog.

Hockey is backkkkkkkkkkkkkkk! Yes, it’s already been back for two days, but the Rangers open their season on Thursday night, so now it’s really back. It’s been over four months since I chose to walk to a bar in the pouring rain rather than watch the final minutes run on the 2012-13 Rangers season in Game 5 against the Bruins, but the devastating postseason ending can now be erased for a new season.

With the Rangers opening their season against the Coyotes in Phoenix on Thursday, I did an email exchange with Kevin DeLury of The New York Rangers Blog to talk about the difference between Alain Vigneault and John Tortorella, Henrik Lundqvist’s contract situation and whether or not Chris Kreider will ever live up to his first-round draft status.

Keefe: The Rangers are back and just in time with both the Yankees season and Giants season ending last Sunday. After last year’s 48-game schedule was squeezed into 99 days and then the 12 postseason games the Rangers played, it seems like just last week they were being eliminated by the Bruins in Game 5 of the conference semifinals even if it was 131 days ago.

Let’s start with the biggest change for the Rangers over that time, which came at head coach with John Tortorella thankfully being fired and changing places with Vancouver’s Alain Vigneault.

I was never really a Vigneault supporter from what I had seen from afar during his three-plus years with the Canadiens and seven years with the Canucks and wasn’t really sold on him being the No. 1 target for Glen Sather and being given the job so quickly and easily. But I have gotten to learn more about him starting with his introductory press conference and how he has performed through the preseason schedule and with the media. I’m definitely all for his offensive coaching style, which won’t have players like Rick Nash and Brad Richards diving headfirst at bombs from the blue line or being asked to muck it up in the corners and sacrifice their bodies. It’s just too bad Marian Gaborik isn’t here to play under Vigneault and had to be traded during the Tortorella era. (Yes, I’m still bitter.)

DeLury: I’m not sure why any Rangers fan would be thankful that John Tortorella was fired. The guy changed the entire perception of the Rangers organization. Instead of being a country club for veteran players to cash one last huge paycheck before riding off into the sunset, Tortorella held players accountable for their actions and made sure they did things “the right way.”

He was able to convince Glen Sather that trying to buy a Stanley Cup was never going to work and that building from within was a winning strategy. Hard-working and dedicated young players such as Ryan Callahan, Brandon Dubinsky and Marc Staal were given leadership positions and became the core of the Blueshirts under Tortorella. When talented veterans such as Marian Gaborik and Brad Richards were acquired they were seen as part of the equation, not the answer. And the results proved Tortorella correct as the 2011-12 Rangers made it to the Eastern Conference Finals for the first time since 1997. That success was followed up last season with a trip to the conference semifinals in which the shorthanded Rangers (no Staal or Ryan Clowe) were knocked out by a talented Bruins squad.

Now that I’ve painted that rosy picture of Tortorella, I’ll cut him down a bit.

Despite the change in culture and all the success, Tortorella’s constant line changes and reliance on top players to the point in which they were burnt out was beyond maddening. And don’t get me started on the Rangers power play, which was beyond pathetic under a coach who was supposed to be a guru with the man advantage. How can a team with Rick Nash, Marian Gaborik and Brad Richards not have a successful power play?

I do feel Torts got a bad rap for the shot-blocking mentality the team had. Right away, he recognized the team didn’t have a wealth of goal scorers, so he felt the only way the Rangers could win was to pack the defense in, rely on his all-world goaltender to steal games and hope the forwards generated enough of a forecheck to produce timely offense. And it worked.

That was until Rick Nash was brought in last season. Tortorella’s stubbornness got the best of him. Yes, his shot-blocking ways led to a conference finals appearance, but when you bring in a Rick Nash, you have to open up the offense and his refusal to modify his game plan to fit a team that didn’t need to grind their way to victory ultimately led to his demise.

I was initially against the firing, but after hearing the reports about what a nightmare it was for the players last season, I don’t think Sather had much of a choice.

As far as Vigneault, I wasn’t a big fan at first. For all the talent and regular-season success he had in Vancouver he was only able to guide the Canucks out of the second round ONCE in his seven years as head coach, including first-round upset losses in each of the last two seasons. Sure, he got the Canucks to within one game of the Stanley Cup, but he lost a Game 7 in his own building with everything on the line.

Having said all that, he’s been a breath of fresh air for the Rangers so far as the positive energy surrounding the team in training camp is palpable. Unfortunately, the results on the ice didn’t reflect it during the preseason. The Rangers scored just nine goals in six games, while giving up 22. So not only are the Blueshirts still not scoring, now they can’t play defense.

Vigneault used most of the preseason to evaluate the talent on the Rangers instead of prepping for the season, which likely led to the uneven play. While I understand that mindset, I just have to question whether the evaluation process went on a little too long and the team is behind the eight ball as they’ve yet to play a game with the opening night line-up.

Yes, it was preseason, but Rick Nash and Brad Richards combining for zero points along with prized prospect Chris Kreider being re-assigned to the AHL after a very unimpressive showing is cause for concern.

So, going into the season, I’m a little uneasy.

Keefe: You mentioned the power play under Tortorella and how it’s unfathomable that a team with Nash, Gaborik and Richards could have a bad power play. But going back even farther than just last season, I don’t remember the last time the Rangers had even a mediocre power play. Actually it was the 2006-07 season when they finished with eighth-best power play in the league. But in the six seasons since then?

2012-13: 23rd
2011-12: 23
2010-11: 18th
2009-10: 13th
2008-09: 29th
2007-08: 23rd

It’s not the like the Rangers have had offensively-challenged players over the last six seasons and it’s not like they have lacked skill players or true scorers. And this year they certainly don’t aren’t lacking those either with Nash and Richards as the should-be focal points of the power play and Derek Stepan finally signing to guarantee a boost to the team’s offense and the man advantage.

On Tuesday, Vigneault told Mike Francesa that the team has been working on the power play of late and there were reports of Nash being put in front of the net to put a pure scorer with a big body in the slot to create traffic and pick up rebounds. I’m torn on this since theoretically it makes sense, but I would rather see him at the top of the dots ripping one-timers.

The power play has been the Rangers’ downfall and was again last year, especially in the postseason when they went 2-for-28 against the Capitals and 2-for-16 against the Bruins. With Ryan Callahan returning from offseason surgery and Carl Hagelin also due back in a couple of weeks from offseason surgery, the Rangers are currently constructed like a high school team with a dangerous first line, an above average second line and then a third and fourth line that aren’t exactly the definition of “depth.” The Rangers are going to have to rely on their scoring to come from the Richards-Stepan-Nash line and the power play with two of their better scoring options unlikely to be in the lineup soon.

Are you worried about the Rangers’ early-season depth?

DeLury: I’m beyond concerned about the scoring depth on this team. While I don’t think Nash has a 40-goal season in him this year, 35 is absolutely doable for him. After that, I’m not sure who else the Rangers can truly count on to supply consistent goal scoring.

Rangers fans have been fawning over Derick Brassard this offseason, but the fact remains that he’s never eclipsed 20 goals in any season during his career. And while it’s great that the Rangers got Stepan re-signed, he’s never been known as a goal scorer as he’s failed to score more than 21 goals in a season. Callahan and Hagelin’s absence from the lineup as they continue to recover from shoulder surgeries will obviously keep their goal totals down and even when they’re back in the line-up there’s no guarantee they’ll immediately return to form. See Gaborik’s return from shoulder surgery last season. Many predicted a breakout season for Kreider, but he’s down in the AHL, and even if he was on the Rangers he has a grand total of TWO career regular-season goals.

How’s this for a stat: After Nash, only two players on the current roster (Callahan and Richards) have reached 25 goals in a season. And as I mentioned above, it is very doubtful Callahan will reach that total this season. Ditto for Richards if he continues his downward spiral.

Sure, Vigneault is going to open up the offense this season, but if he doesn’t have the players who can execute his new schemes, does it really matter? As far as Vigneault’s power-play strategy, I did like what I saw in the preseason. There was a lot more puck and player movement. I also loved that there was always someone in front causing havoc. I definitely anticipate a more successful power play this season. Hell, it can’t get worse.

The biggest reason for the Rangers power-play failings under Tortorella has been the lack of a true power-play quarterback. The guy who has all the talent to do it is Michael Del Zotto, but I have lots of questions about what goes on between the ears with him.

Keefe: The idea of Henrik Lundqvist leaving via free agency is scarier than the idea of Robinson Cano doing the same. Lundqvist is the reason the Rangers have been relevant in the post-lockout era and the only reason they have gone as far as they have in the playoffs during that time.

Lundqvist and the Rangers have still been talking about an extension, which he says he will ask the talks to cease during the regular season, so they don’t become a distraction and he can focus 100 percent on playing. That means the Rangers have just hours left to get a deal done with No. 30 or it will be a long, long season of the unknown. (Editor’s note: Since the end of the email exchange it was reported that Henrik Lundqvist backed out of contract extension talks.)

And with the Francesa-Vigneault interview mentioned earlier, Vigneault told Francesa that he plans on playing Lundqvist for 60 games this season and then giving 22 to Martin Biron due to research done in the past about Stanley Cup winners and how many games their goalies played. The fewest number of games Lundqvist has played since entering the league was in his rookie season in 2005-06 when he played 53. Since then he has played 70, 72, 70, 73, 68, 62 and 43, but the 43 came in the shortened season and was 89.6 percent of the season, which is the equivalent of 73 games in a regular 82-game season.

What do you think will happen with Lundqvist’s extension? Please don’t tell me we will be looking at a revolving goalie door for a decade starting in 2014-15.

DeLury: Now that the regular season is virtually upon us and Lundqvist has declared that he’s not going to be a part of negotiations during the summer, it looks like if a deal is going to get done it won’t be until next summer. Which makes this season, probably one of the most important in franchise history.

I’ve never seen an athlete so driven by winning as Lundqvist. He has made no bones about it, he wants to win a Stanley Cup. Would winning it in New York be his ideal scenario? Of course, but if he isn’t enamored with the direction of the team under Vigneault and doesn’t feel the Rangers give him the best chance to achieve his goal, I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see him bolt for a team like the Penguins.

And while most so-called experts expect the Rangers to break the bank to keep “The King” on his throne in New York, I’m not so sure. It would be beyond the height of stupidity for the Rangers to offer a 31-year old goaltender an eight-year, $80 million contract in the salary cap era, epecially when the team still needs to re-sign Callahan and Dan Girardi next offseason as well.

I love the idea of limiting Lundqvist’s workload in an attempt to keep him fresh for the postseason. One of the knocks over the years of Hank has been his inability to carry the team on his shoulders to the promise land in the postseason. Hopefully this strategy will allow him to do that. Although, that workload could increase significantly if the Rangers fall behind in the standings early and Vigneault needs to lean on the All-Star goaltender down the stretch.

Keefe: In February 2012, I would have traded anything for Rick Nash and that anything included Chris Kreider. At the time Kreider was a 20-year-old college hockey player and 2009 first-round pick of the Rangers. The debate favored keeping Kreider over trading him for a player, who if Kreider lived up to his potential would still never match in talent, ability or skill. Ultimately the Rangers decided not to trade for Nash and ended up needing seven games to get by the Senators and Capitals before falling to the Devils in six games in the conference finals.

I argued that the Rangers can’t keep wasting years of Henrik Lundqvist’s prime by not balancing the team with offense. How many more documentaries and shows can be squeezed out of the 1993-94 season? Isn’t it time the Rangers start to make new memories and stop reliving ones from two decades ago?

Kreider was called up for the postseason and scored five goals in 18 games. But last year he became a frequent traveler between Hartford and New York, playing only 23 games for the Rangers and scoring just two goals and adding one assist. He played in eight of the Rangers’ 12 playoff games and had a goal and an assist.

Earlier this preseason, Kreider was playing with Nash and Richards and looking like he might be part of the Rangers’ top line and given a chance to finally prove his first-round worth. Instead he had a poor camp and was sent to Hartford on Sunday to start the season.

Kreider isn’t that young anymore when it comes to a former first-round pick (though he’s not old by any stretch). He’s 22 now and it’s been over four years since he was drafted and he has 23 regular-season games under his belt. To put that in perspective, out of the 29 others players taken in the first round with Kreider in 2009, 25 of them have played more NHL games than him.

What are we to make of Kreider?

DeLury: Last season, Tortorella caught a huge amount of flak for his handling of Chris Kreider. His constant bouncing from the Rangers and Hartford was said to be ruining the kid’s confidence. But I think this preseason’s underwhelming performance from the Rangers No. 1 prospect leading to his assignment to the Wolf Pack almost vindicates Tortorella’s hesitancy to use Kreider in a bigger role.

Kreider has first-line talent, which is why you saw Vigneault put him on a line with Nash and Richards in the preseason, but what the new Rangers head coach found out very quickly is that Kreider might not have the NHL IQ to go along with that talent.

A ton of minutes in every situation in the AHL will be much better for his development than 15 minutes of even strength action in the NHL. I have all the confidence in the world that he will be recalled at some point this season and will succeed at the NHL level. He’s just too talented not to.

Keefe: So here we go with 82 games between now and April 12. It will be a tough stretch out of the gate for the Rangers with nine games on the road to start the season because of the third and final year of MSG renovations.

I’m not as concerned with the early-season schedule as I am with the scoring depth and apparent lack of secondary scoring options, which has pretty much been my biggest concern with the team over the last six years. I’m also obviously concerned about Lundqvist’s contract situation even if that might not get taken care of until the end of the year and by then Lundqvist might decide he wants to play for a team that can score a goal in a playoff game.

What are you most excited about this Rangers team other than the season starting and what worries you about this team?

DeLury: I’m most excited about a fresh start for the Rangers. Despite all the doom and gloom I’ve been spewing, there is a sense of camaraderie that is very similar to the 2011-12 club that was one of the closest Rangers teams I’ve rooted for.

While most might see the nine-game road trip to start the season as a negative, I think it’ll be a huge bonding experience that fosters a ton of chemistry with the team. It also doesn’t hurt to have one of the league’s best goal scorers in Nash and when everything breaks down it’s always nice to turn to the greatest goaltender on the planet.

I’m most worried about the lack of team toughness. I watched the Rangers get pushed around all last season with zero push back. Both Ryan McDonagh and Rick Nash got run last season without a response which is absolutely unacceptable. When the Rangers were successful under Tortorella they displayed toughness and grit. When an opposing team faced the Blueshirts they were prepared to fight for every inch of the ice. Torts’ crew wasn’t the most talented team, but would outwork their opponent and were always there for each other. For some reason the “jam” as Torts liked to call it disappeared last season.

When the Rangers parted ways with heart and soul guys like Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, Brandon Prust, Ruslan Fedotenko and John Mitchell after the 2011-12 season, I think management miscalculated how integral those guys were to the success of the team. And up until this point, those players have yet to be replaced.

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Blogs • Email Exchanges • Giants

Sep 27, 2013

Giants-Chiefs Has Much Different Meaning Than Last Meeting

The Giants face a must-win game in Kansas City against old rival Andy Reid and the Chiefs and that calls for an email exchange with Joel Thorman of Arrowhead Pride.

Must-win game. I have said it 4,738 times this week and will probably say it that many more times between now and Sunday. The Yankees season is over (and really has been since the beginning of August), but will officially end on Sunday in Houston and there’s a chance the Giants season could end on the same day, just four games in and what will be two days before October.

Prior to Opening Night against the Cowboys I hadn’t been this exciting about a Giants team since … well, Opening Night against the Cowboys last year. Now the Giants are 0-3 and have lost all three games in embarrassing fashion and are a loss to Andy Reid, Alex Smith and the Chiefs on Sunday from playing three months of football for nothing.

With the Giants playing the Chiefs for the first time in four years and trying to save their season against an old foe in Reid, I did an email exchange with Joel Thorman of Arrowhead Pride to talk about the Chiefs’ 3-0 start, the perception of Andy Reid in Kansas City and whether or not Chiefs fans wanted Alex Smith as their quarterback.

Keefe: The last time the Giants and Chiefs met was Week 4 in 2009. The Giants won that game (a game I barely remember) 27-16 to open the season 4-0. The following week they beat the Raiders 44-7 to open the season with five straight wins, but after that it was all downhill. The Giants went 3-8 the rest of the way for one of their patented second-half collapses and finished the year being outscored 85-16 by the Panthers and Vikings in Weeks 16 and 17 respectively.

That Giants win gave the Chiefs their fourth straight loss to the open the season. The following week the Chiefs would lose to the Cowboys and were 0-5. They wouldn’t get much better from there, finishing the season 4-12 with two five-game losing streaks in the same season.

This year things are different. Very different. The Giants are 0-3 and pretty much facing postseason elimination if they can’t win on Sunday in Kansas City (or unless they go on a 10-2 run the rest of the way). The Chiefs are 3-0, having already beat the Cowboys and Eagles to help out the Giants, and are tied atop the NFC West with the Super Bowl-favorite Broncos.

What’s it like to be 3-0 and playing so well to open the season because I don’t remember?

Thorman: 3-0 is great.Things are going well and everyone just seems happy, the players, coaches and fans. I’m enjoying it so far and the reason for that is because it was so unexpected. Nobody expected the Chiefs to start 3-0. The debate in Kansas City was whether they’d win seven or nine games. No one expected the Chiefs to have a top three defense after three weeks. No one expected the lack of turnovers so far. We just didn’t see it coming. The expectations coming in were for the team to be competitive in December. Playoffs? Maybe if things went great. It reminds me of the 2010 Chiefs, who started 3-0. There were expectations to be competitive, but not make the playoffs.

Keefe: No head coach in the league knows the Giants or the NFC East like Andy Reid does. Sure the Giants have had their fair share of success against him over the years, but it was pretty even with a usual series split with the Eagles. So far Reid has put his knowledge of the division to good use with wins over the Cowboys and Eagles in back-to-back weeks, including getting a win at Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia in a sort of homecoming game

Everyone knew that Reid would be highly sought after on the open market once the Eagles decided to let him go after last season and it took about 15 minutes to get a new job with the Chiefs. I’m guessing you’re an Andy Reid fan now, but were you a fan of the decision to hire Reid at first? What do you think he will do to prepare his new team to face one of his familiar opponents?

Thorman: Yes, I was a fan of the move. For where the Chiefs were in their history and where they were coming from, Andy Reid was a perfect fit. The Chiefs last two coaches were Todd Haley, who had no experience as a head coach, and Romeo Crennel, who wasn’t very good. Chiefs owner Clark Hunt couldn’t afford to whiff on another coach. His franchise was in dire straits. He had to get it right. So he went from the most accomplished coach on the market. It’s a big change from the last two coaches the Chiefs have had and I think that’s exactly what was needed.

Reid brings respectability, stability and confidence. The Chiefs DO have talent. Outside of quarterback, that wasn’t the question. Reid’s arrival has brought out the best in anyone. Reid didn’t have anything special for the Cowboys two weeks ago and he knew them well so I don’t expect him to do anything too unique for New York. Just don’t turn it over, get after Eli Manning and hope for a win. That’ll be the formula in every game.

Keefe: I have never been an Alex Smith fan. Not when he was drafted, not when he was benched, not when he was benched again, not when several head coaches lost their jobs because he couldn’t perform, not when Jim Harbaugh figured out how to have him manage games, not when he reached the NFC Championship Game against the Giants and not when he was finally benched for good for Colin Kaepernick. I didn’t understand why the Chiefs decided to trade for him or why Reid was so adamant about wanting him as his quarterback. But so far everything has worked out in Smith’s favor, Reid’s favor and the Chiefs fans’ favor.

The Chiefs needed a change and needed a quarterback for the future when it was evident that Matt Cassel wasn’t going to be that guy. Was Smith the guy you wanted and if not, who?

Thorman: Alex Smith was the best option if you were looking for a quarterback last year. The Chiefs had the No. 1 pick so they could’ve taken anyone. It just wasn’t one of those years. So for where the Chiefs were, yes, I think Alex Smith was the option. It made me feel a little better knowing Andy Reid has liked Alex for a number of years. But, yeah, I see your concerns and I can’t really dismiss them.

Reid hasn’t changed his offense a whole lot so Alex Smith is passing the ball a lot, which isn’t what he did in San Francisco. I think Alex has grown a lot, which will help this relationship. I think Andy is also a smart dude who generally maximizes his quarterback’s ability. So from that standpoint I think Andy will get the absolute most out of Alex just like Harbaugh did. The real question, in my opinion, is whether Alex gets a new deal in Kansas City. He has this year and one more year on his contract. That will be the real sign of how committed they are.

Keefe: And what about Matt Cassel (who was the most fortunate quarterback to ever get rich until Matt Flynn came along)? What were your feelings when the Chiefs traded for Cassel after the 2008 season?

Thorman: I was very excited about Matt Cassel when the Chiefs traded for him. In fact, the failures of Cassel probably contributed to my pessimism about the Alex Smith trade. The Chiefs NEVER went after young quarterbacks and had it work out so this was exciting. Obviously it didn’t work out but if you’re asking how I felt back then … yeah, I was excited about it and thought it would work out. Remember now, at the time the Cassel trade was made, he was thought of so highly that reporters found it unbelievable that the Chiefs gave up “only'” a second round pick for him. In fact, one national reporter said the NFL should investigate the trade. So I wasn’t the only one who thought it was a good deal back then. Notice that I mentioned Alex’s contract above. I think the biggest mistake with Cassel was not the trade — can’t knock you for trading for a young quarterback — but the crippling contract that kept him in KC.

Keefe: This game on Sunday means everything to the Giants. It’s the difference between starting to climb out of the 0-3 hole and come back in a division that is still up for grabs or everyone packing it in for the season and Tom Coughlin’s job being called into question once again. For the Chiefs, sure it would be nice to win and be 4-0 and keep pace with the Broncos and I’m sure Reid wants to run the table on the NFC East, but it’s not like the Chiefs have to win.

With everyone pushing the Giants away and giving them no chance to figure out what has gone wrong over their last 11 games and how they could have lost eight of those games after being 6-2 last year and looking at a division title and a chance to defend their Super Bowl win, it puts the Giants in the perfect place. This team and franchise has always crumbled under pressure and failed to live up the hype or perform as a favorite. It’s when the odds are stacked against them and they can fly under the radar is when they start to play to their abilities.

Now this could also be me fresh off the Yankees being eliminated from reaching the postseason for just the second time since 1993 pretending that things will turn around for the Giants and my football season won’t be ruined the way my baseball season just was. Or it could be for real and the New York Football Giants I was excited about three Sundays ago before the season started could show up for the first time this season. Man, do I wish it was Week 4 four years ago.

What do you expect to happen on Sunday?

Thorman: I expect the Giants to play much better, but ultimately I’m picking the Chiefs. I don’t see this as a blowout. I have it as a four-point game. Ultimately Kansas City’s pass rush is going to be too much for Eli Manning. Whether it’s the sacks that get him or the interceptions that come after he’s hurried, the Chiefs can and will capitalize on the Giants mistakes. Kansas City won’t make many mistakes on their own which means they won’t be taking a lot of shots either. That’s why I see this being a close affair. The thinking here in Kansas City is that the Giants can’t possibly be that bad. No one expects a crappy Giants team to come to Arrowhead. 23-19 in favor of the Chiefs.

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Blogs • Email Exchanges • Giants

Sep 13, 2013

Giants-Broncos Means Manning Bowl III

The Broncos are in town for Manning Bowl III and that calls for an email exchange with Ian Henson of Mile High Report.

Peyton Manning might very well be the best regular-season quarterback in the history of the NFL. But when it comes to the postseason, Peyton is the second-best quarterback in his family. Eli Manning can always use the second Super Bowl ring to quiet his critics and his brother and the fact that he beat Tom Brady (which is something Peyton has had a lot of trouble doing) for both of his Super Bowls and Super Bowl MVPs. But when it comes to the direct battle of Manning brother supremacy, Eli falls short with an 0-2 record in the Manning Bowl (2006 and 2010). On Sunday, however, Eli has a chance to close the gap a little more on which Manning is the best Manning if he can upset his brother and the Broncos at MetLife Stadium.

Ian Henson of Mile High Report joined me for an email exchange with the Broncos in town for Manning Bowl III this weekend to talk about how confident Broncos fans are, whether or not they trust Peyton in the playoffs and what will happen this Sunday in East Rutherford.

Keefe: The last time the Giants played the Broncos it ruined Thanksgiving. The Giants opened the 2009 season winning five straight games and then immediately lost four games. They came off their bye to beat the Falcons in overtime in Week 11 and then made the trip to the Denver for Thanksgiving night. Broncos 26, Giants 6.

Eli Manning threw for 230 yards and Brandon Jacobs and D.J. Ware each ran for 27 yards and the Broncos’ 16-0 halftime lead was too much to overcome.

After that game the Giants lost three of their final five games and gave up 166 points combined in those five games, finishing the season 8-8.

This time the Broncos have a chance to put the Giants’ season on life alert in Week 2. After this game, the Giants go on the road to face the Panthers, who will be looking for revenge from their Week 2 embarrassment against the Giants last year and then to Kansas City to face Andy Reid, who knows the Giants better than any coach in the league, and his new team.

With the Yankees battling for their wild-card lives I was looking forward to Giants and football season, but is it possible that it might be in serious trouble on Sept. 15? What’s it like to have your team coming off the most impressive Week 1 win in the league in which you dismantled the Super Bowl champions and your quarterback tied a single-game touchdown record?

Henson: Up until 2011, in the Season of Tebow, I had never been to a Denver Broncos game in which they had lost (and I have been to a lot of games). The last time the Broncos played the New York Giants in Denver, I was there. My phone blew up after the Josh McDaniels, “I just want to win a f—in’ game!” I had no idea what people were talking about, they got it from the NFL Network, I obviously couldn’t hear McDaniels from where I was sitting. I never considered traveling to be such a big factor when I was younger, but I know from living in New York and Denver, that the flight is just about as long as it is from New York to Los Angeles. Brutal for a flight in which you’re taking off and landing in the same country.

I have to confess, I was 18 when I moved to New York City, I was too young to get into any bars, thus forced to watch games wherever I could. That usually meant at home, this is how I developed a kinship with the Giants, they were always on and unable to see Broncos games in 2001 in a bar made me develop an interest. I will cheer for the Giants in any game that does not involve the Broncos.

The last time Denver and New York met, the Broncos had traded Jay Cutler and a fifth-round pick to the Chicago Bears for two first-round draft picks, a third round and Kyle Orton. Orton had an atrocious preseason and had Denver fans begging for him to be benched in favor of Chris Simms. Fans hated McDaniels from the start; then the season started and the Broncos under McDaniels went 6-0 (including an overtime victory in which McDaniels beat his old coach Bill Belichick), the team went on to lose their next four games and in the meantime Orton got injured. Thanksgiving 2009, the Giants and Broncos game happened.

Orton’s first game back, the team was still in the playoff hunt, in a very weak AFC West. The Broncos went on to win against the Giants and the next week they whooped the Kansas City Chiefs. The Broncos travled to Indianapolis and Peyton Manning squashed what was left of Denver, even a record day by Brandon Marshall breaking Terrell Owens’ single-game catch record with 21 for 200 yards and two touchdowns did nothing. The Broncos picked off Manning three times, but Orton could not capitalize and in Week 14 the Colts had already secured home field advantage for the playoffs. Manning was always a Bronco killer, he has yet to prove that he doesn’t remain a Bronco killer.

In 2012, the Broncos were one of the best teams in the league, the Ravens weren’t. Denver easily handled a neutered Baltimore team in the regular season. The playoffs were an entirely different animal though, two overtimes later, the Ravens move on and the Broncos are sent back home. Tebow fans were commenting how he had gotten the Broncos that far, what was the point of Peyton Manning? Denver did not game plan for a single game in the preseason this year and as far as I can tell, started running scout team preparing for the Baltimore game in Week 2 or Week 3 of the preseason. Baltimore had no choice, no one could have guessed that Manning would throw seven touchdowns, but the only doubt anyone had was whether or not Denver could be over or under on the point spread.

It isn’t homerism to say that Denver is really good this season, that Baltimore game was without Von Miller and without Champ Bailey. The Broncos have replaced their running game with Wes Welker and Julius Thomas is scary good if he can stay healthy. Even Denver’s fourth string receiver caught a touchdown. It’s good for the week to be on top, but the Giants have ruined a previous Broncos perfect season before. In 1998, Denver was 13-0, came to Giants stadium and lost 16-20. New York killed the Broncos undefeated season and it was by less than a touchdown (a trend the Giants would be so famous for in 2007).

During our podcast, we neglected to mention that Eli has never beat Peyton. I don’t know how much that is coming up in New York, but as we are both aware, this may be the last chance that he gets. Peyton’s not likely to still be playing in three seasons when the AFC West and the NFC East meet again. I think that amateurs may point to the Giants shaky running game, but Denver shut down Ray Rice in week one. New York’s running game is a trap basically, Pro Football Focus pointed out that both Champ Bailey and Chris Harris were top 15 corners in the NFL last season, but if Bailey is healthy, it would probably be a better thing for the Giants. Harris will be on Victor Cruz, Harris spent the entire preseason and training camp pairing with Wes Welker and you have Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie back in his natural position and matched up once again with Hakeem Nicks. This is why I say Bailey is the liability. I think Denver is much better off with Tony Carter on Reuben Randle than Champ on Randle.

I see no way that Denver runs the ball though and if the game is a shootout they probably wouldn’t want to anyway.

Keefe: We neglected to mention that Eli has never beaten Peyton because who wants to bring up that sore subject?!?! However, the Giants could gave beaten the Colts and therefore Eli would have beaten Peyton if not for the phantom pass interference call in the 2006 game that left Al Michaels and John Madden in shock on the broadcast. So maybe it would be 1-1 if not for the call that should have never been called, but it’s not and Peyton holds the 2-0 advantage.

Eli does the hold advantage when it comes to championships, which is all that really matters, isn’t it? But you could make the case that if not for Pierre Garcon’s terrible drop against the Saints in the Super Bowl and the onside kick against the Colts to open the second half, Peyton never would have been set up to throw a game-clinching interception and he would be 2-0 in Super Bowls as well.

But since this has turned into an Eli-Peyton discussion, for the moment, and if championships are all that matters (and they are, especially for fans), then how do you feel about the Broncos chances’ this season? You saw what Peyton can do firsthand in the regular season last year and in one regular-season game this year, but you also saw what he could do in the postseason when he seems to come up short in the big spot (even if he isn’t responsible for the defensive coverage on Jacoby Jones). Knowing how good the Broncos are and how good Peyton is and can be and how weak the AFC West and AFC are in 2013, are the Broncos going to be there in the end, barring any devastating injuries?

Henson: I will point out that I hated Peyton Manning as a Broncos fan for every single season of his career up until 2012. I remember the game that you are talking about, but much like the Giants last two Super Bowls, it could have gone either way. Eli makes the play when it counts, twice now and probably once or twice more before he is finished with his career. The same could be said for Peyton in his Super Bowl loss, one miss throw to Tracy Porter and they lose, last season in the playoffs he tosses an interception to Corey Graham to end the first overtime. Three plays later, the game is over. Eli doesn’t do that so much.

The Broncos handled the Ravens and I don’t think that the Ravens are a bad team, I thought that the Cincinnati Bengals would take the AFC North, but they just got toppled by the Chicago Bears. I think that Baltimore and Denver see each other again in the post season. The parallels between 2012 and 1996 for Denver are too many, 1997 of course was the year the 0-4 (in Super Bowls) Broncos finally made it 1-4. I think this season, even without Peyton Denver can make a playoff run. People were quick to point out that the Broncos were on their third center and without Von Miller, but Denver just extended Manny Ramirez for two more seasons and Shaun Phillips (Von’s backup) has 2.5 sacks and is currently second in the NFL. Their depth is scary and the AFC is in shambles right now. Houston almost lost to San Diego, the Raiders nearly handed to to the Colts, New England? Name a receiver on the Patriots that is healthy and not named Edelman…

What is going to be interesting to me is watching Andy Reid’s Kansas City Chiefs vs. the NFC East. The Chiefs are returning 11 Pro Bowlers from last season, Reid, as much as people may dislike him in the NFC East, is a great coach. Give him Alex Smith, who doesn’t often make mistakes, Jamaal Charles and Dwayne Bowe … Pack that in with the fact that he’s been playing two games against every team in your division outside of his own team and man … That’s going to be fun entertainment. The AFC West may actually be the reason that the Giants win the NFC East this season. No one thinks the AFC West is worth anything, but look at Week One and how they handled themselves. I don’t know how long Terrelle Pryor will be a thing, but Mike McCoy won a playoff game with Tim Tebow, I think that he will be alright with Philip Rivers.

Speaking of Rivers, how do Giants fans feel about him?

Keefe: I have no reason to dislike Philip Rivers for any reason other than that he would have been the Giants quarterback, which I guess is enough of a reason to dislike him when you look at what he has accomplished in his carer compared to Eli Manning. It’s hard to justify not liking someone who has never really affected your team other than they would have been your franchise quarterback if things unfolded differently. It’s not like he’s David Ortiz or the baseball Manny Ramirez or Martin Brodeur or Tony Romo or Donovan McNabb or someone that has given you on-the-field reasons to not like them. I don’t like Rivers because had Archie Manning not made sure the Chargers didn’t draft Eli, he would have been a Giant. (It seems pretty stupid when you actually write it out.)

You talked about how the AFC West isn’t as bad as everyone might have thought before the season, but when I look at it I just see early-season hype storylines in Andy Reid succeeding in Kansas City, Terrelle Pryor being the much-needed franchise quarterback in Oakland and San Diego being revitalized and nearly knocking off Houston. I say “hype storylines” because these seem to be more for talking head shows rather than for real life. and it wouldn’t surprise me if all three of those teams were afterthoughts by the middle of October. (Though I’m sure it wouldn’t surprise you either.) That means the Broncos are set up to most likely run the table in division matchups and then would just need to go something like 4-6 in their other 10 games to reach the postseason and they’re already 1-0, so 3-6 now. I guess I answered my own question from earlier if the Broncos will be there in the end this year.

But there has to be something that worries you about the Broncos, isn’t there? Tell me there’s something you’re worried about because when it comes to the Giants I’m worried about just about everything. But I guess that’s Giants football no matter what year it is.

Henson: I am not a big fan and was even less of a fan of Brock Osweiler last season. Osweiler played for Dennis Erickson at Arizona State, Erickson when 6-6 and for fear of losing draft position to a new head coach’s offense Osweiler entered the draft in 2012. The Denver Broncos traded out of the Dont’a Hightower pick (Pats), then again out of the Doug Martin pick (Buccaneeers), back into the second round and picked up Derek Wolfe and Brock Osweiler. The Wolfe pick doesn’t bother me so much and may pan out to be a really good pick, but the Osweiler pick still can get me steamed. In picking up Osweiler, the Broncos missed on so many players that they had met with, scouted and knew to be good players. Denver wins the Baltimore playoff game with Doug Martin as their running back.

It doesn’t end there though, Janoris Jenkins, Bobby Wagner, Lavonte David, Rueben Randle, Coby Fleener, Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins! Every one of those players could have been picked up instead of Osweiler and instead, they have Osweiler. Now, there was some PR material given out around draft time to attempt to smooth over Broncos fans and let them know that Osweiler would have been a first-round draft pick in 2013, but the Broncos got him in the second round in 2012. So, I hated the pick, more so than the player, but Osweiler looked okay in the preseason and I have no doubt that with Denver’s very easy schedule, he could win eight, nine games if the worse were to happen.

Everything that I was afraid of happened. Ryan Clady who covers Manning’s blindside is not 100 percent, Ramirez at center is really the 32nd worst starting center in the league, the running game sucks, Von Miller is out six games, Champ Bailey is probably out at least four games, Elvis Dumervil on the Ravens, Eric Decker sucking (three catches and a fumble) … I’ve covered a situation in which Manning is gone. The team just really isn’t reliant on who the players are for whatever reason. Look back at Week 1, the Broncos gave up 21 points on mistakes made by special teams and defense (Danny Trevathan’s one yard fumble celebration cost Denver seven points, turned into seven for the Ravens and Wes Welker’s punt return drop inside of the five-yard line). Jack Del Rio and John Fox have worked together two season (their first was the year Carolina went to the Super Bowl, Del Rio left to coach the Jaguars after that), both seasons their defense has been ranked second in the NFL. This is their third season, the team would be well off with basically anyone at quarterback. Who couldn’t throw to Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Wes Welker and Julius Thomas? Now you throw Peyton into that mix and that’s 30-40 points a game, with a Top 10 NFL defense on the other side and one of the games best punt returners/kick returners.

I am really not this cocky about that team and I am sorry for coming off that way, I just got out of a Twitter conversation in which someone (I assume a 49ers fan) was letting me know that Colin Kaepernick is better than Peyton Manning. It’s hard to convince any Broncos fan that any new quarterback is anything other than a flavor of the day. We have witnessed Tim Tebow, through multiple seasons and see that two years later he is out of the NFL. That wasn’t Tebow winning as much as it was Denver’s defense and special teams coming through when it was clutch. Cue the 49ers, I’d like to say the Redskins too, but Mike Shanahan is an offensive genius and I think this year the Panthers could fit back into that mold. Ron Rivera has them with a stout defense again and Cam Newton just needs to air it out three to four times a game.

If the Giants are able to put together a running game, they can expose the Broncos up the middle probably. Wesley Woodyard (Denver’s middle linebacker) has just started practicing today (Thursday) and although he is good, he’s playing mike for the first time in his career and not at 100 percent. Denver would need to bring up strong safety Duke Ihenacho to assist and at that point Eli’s got the deep center over the top with only Rahim Moore to beat.

Another thing is the offensive play count, there has been much said about Philadelphia’s offensive play count, but Denver can demolish that. In the Ravens game, the Broncos only had 68 plays the whole game and exactly half of those came in the first half. In the third week of preseason, Manning had 33 plays in the first quarter and 23 plays in the second quarter (56 plays in one half). Philly had 77 in their entire game Monday night. I guess for the record in 2012, the average was 64 offensive plays per game. There are things in the Broncos arsenal that I don’t think that we will see until deep into the season, but putting up with a play count like that is going to be nearly impossible for any defense to deal with for long at 5,280 feet above sea level.

Then again, that whole thing is super hyped up. Patriots put up 94 offensive snaps in Week 1 and they damn near lost to the Buffalo Bills.

I see that you guys just put Dan Conner on season ending injured reserve, I am sure that doesn’t even really effect you though. You guys are so strong in your front seven.

Keefe: Another day, another devastating injury for the Giants. (And another devastating injury for the Yankees too as Brett Gardner hurt his left oblique striking out tonight and might be done for the season.)

Offensive play counts seem to the cool thing to care about and keep track of in the NFL now since it supposedly gives you a better chance to win. But like you said the Patriots nearly lost to the Bills (the Bills!) even with their high play total.

You mention the Giants running game possibly exposing the Broncos defense, but that would mean the Giants would have to have a running game, which they may not if Wilson is bad or fumbles again or if Da’Rel Scott plays or if Brandon Jacobs plays.

There is a lot at stake in this game. For the Giants, they need to bounce back off their six-turnover performance in Week 1 and avoid going 0-2. For the Broncos, they need to continue to prove they are the best team in the league and that Week 1 wasn’t just them taking advantage of a team rebuilding off a Super Bowl. And for Eli and Peyton it’s obviously much deeper than both of those things when it’s come to their personal rivalry, their family, their legacies and the perception of both.

It’s been almost four years since the two teams met and unless they meet in the Super Bowl between now and 2017, it will be another four until they meet again. What do you expect to happen on Sunday this time around in the Giants-Broncos meeting and the Manning Bowl?

Henson: Champ Bailey has just been ruled out for the Giants game on Sunday by John Fox. I don’t think that we were really expecting him anyway for this game and truthfully, no one is positive whether or not Bailey is needed at this point. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie was targeted once in Week One, Joe Flacco sees Chris Harris laughing his ass off in Flacco’s nightmares. Tony Carter is one of the fastest players in the NFL and plays corner like he is a computer character on Madden who has been set to 99 everything and runs fundamentals perfectly.

Good news for New York is that Prince Amukamara is likely to play, I assume he takes Demaryius Thomas? And Eric Decker has already declared that he would have a better game, privately to Peyton Manning (Manning gives the offense drop statistics in their lockers after the game with that player’s name highlighted, Decker had four and a fumble last week).

Last season, Dennis Allen left the Denver Broncos as their defensive coordinator and took over the head coaching job for the Oakland Raiders. During Week 14, Allen’s Father passed away. The Broncos could have easily stomped on the Raiders, but instead turned in an incredibly conservative game and opted for field goals instead of touchdowns on four different scoring opportunities. Peyton threw for one touchdown and Knowshon Moreno ran for one off of a defensive fumble recover that ended on the Raiders’ two-yard line.

I say that story, to say this. I don’t think that anyone is going to run away with this game, if it gets to the point where Denver can offer a beat down, they won’t. The Giants are not the Baltimore Ravens. If the Giants are the ones to shift into fifth gear early, then of course Denver will attempt to keep up, but the Broncos won’t pile it on in New York. Fox used to coach there, Eli is Peyton’s brother and it’s an NFC vs. AFC game. What I do expect is for the Giants to get a turnover or two, because as bad as New Yorkers perceive David Wilson to be at fumbling, Ronnie Hillman is worse, off the top of my head, I think that he fumbled four times in the preseason, five, but one wasn’t given a red flag by the opposing coach like it should have.

Denver’s defense focuses on shutting down the opposing teams best player, so Victor Cruz may not have the greatest game, but Eli will have a ton of yards. Second-year undrafted linebacker Danny Trevathan (the one who fumbled the ball at the one-yard line, instead of scoring last week) has shut down nearly every tight end, including Jimmy Graham dating back to last season.

So, my prediction would be Broncos by two scores, unless they decide to feature Ronnie Hillman for some reason. Who covers Wes Welker? Mark Herzlich? Aaron Ross? Denver uses Welker as their ground game, a six-yard pass to Welker is just as good as a six yard run by Moreno, Montee Ball or Hillman. If you put Ross on Herzlich, how do the Giants account for Julius Thomas? It’s just too much for most, if any, defense to contain. The Broncos aren’t the 2007 New England Patriots, but Denver’s receivers are much better.

There is a huge amount of respect for the Giants receivers in Denver though, here is John Fox moments ago on your receivers, “Very formidable. Just their passing game in general — you saw what they did last week against Dallas, which is a very capable crew. Really, the difference in that game was turnovers, but otherwise offensively I think — in particular the passing game — they were right up there as far as top performances in the league.”

So there you have it, let’s see how many combined points this game can go for.

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